tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post3781303322255912468..comments2023-06-21T02:30:06.647-07:00Comments on Project: The King and I: Genesis 4-7 Adam and Eve Start a FamilyBrucehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08310824690509335801noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-43650963391724877312011-01-20T21:38:58.621-08:002011-01-20T21:38:58.621-08:00Several people have commented on the reference to ...Several people have commented on the reference to God in the plural. The word "elohim", which is often used to refer to God, is actually a plural form. The singular form is "eloah" or "el". <br /><br />The use of a plural form may indicate that the early Hebrews worshiped more than one god, or that they worshiped one among several supernatural beings that they regarded as gods (perhaps the gods of neighboring tribes), or it may simply be a use of the "royal we". Other commenters have already pointed out all of these possibilities. <br /><br />But I'm very skeptical of one possibility suggested by a commenter. I think it is highly unlikely that the use of plural references to god in Genesis prefigures the "trinity" of Christianity. Are we to believe that Hebrews/Jews used these plural forms for centuries without recognizing then (or now) that the god they worshiped was actually three gods in one?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15356923386171604653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-35091536616650011132011-01-20T21:00:26.383-08:002011-01-20T21:00:26.383-08:00Great comments! I thought the Cain/Abel agrarian/...Great comments! I thought the Cain/Abel agrarian/hunter-gatherer parallel was particularly interesting. <br /><br />One commenter mentioned my favorite book of the bible: the book of Asimov (Asimov's Guide to the Bible). In his book, Isaac Asimov explains that the long lists of "begats" may not represent actual people, but instead are "eponymous" references to tribes (i.e. each tribe is identified by a character's name). <br /><br />(The remainder of this post is my own speculation, so don't blame Dr. Asimov.) <br /><br />These eponymous tribe names are similar to clan names in Scotland (e.g. not all members of clan MacDonald are actually the son of Donald, as "MacDonald" implies). <br /><br />One tribe "begat" another tribe by dividing its territory among new smaller tribes. As time went on, the tribes got bigger and it became necessary to subdivide them more frequently to reduce the population density to that which could be supported by hunting, gathering and primitive farming. This may explain why younger tribe names have shorter lifetimes than older tribe names.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15356923386171604653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-43639297019421185452011-01-05T12:01:41.759-08:002011-01-05T12:01:41.759-08:00I don't think the Bible needs our approval for...I don't think the Bible needs our approval for credibility-I believe it is the Word of God. And as far as purpose for there being "endless lists", Perhaps the main reason for their permanent inscripturation in this fashion is simply to illustrate the great truth that God knows and cares about every one of His children. We do know that each of our names is written in “the book of life of the Lamb” and in God’s “book of remembrance . . . for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon His name” (Revelation 13:8; Malachi 3:16). Perhaps, as a small token and assurance of these great lists in heaven, God has listed a few of these names in His Book here on Earth. Credit again to icr.orgAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10739913572991122653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-10727888219747688242011-01-05T06:54:54.636-08:002011-01-05T06:54:54.636-08:00Hey all, Sara here. I'm a fundamental, evangel...Hey all, Sara here. I'm a fundamental, evangelical Baptist (oh, no, not one of them!) in a science major at a public university, so I've faced my share of questions regarding the authenticity of the Bible. I was reading through and noticed the question on who the "us" referred to during the creation account is supposed to be. I've been taught throughout my life that this is the first reference to the Trinity, so that God the Father is talking to God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12593925722601082122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-17419162894394966982011-01-04T21:09:00.539-08:002011-01-04T21:09:00.539-08:00There are giants in the Bible. Goliath was one. 1 ...There are giants in the Bible. Goliath was one. 1 Samuel 17. <br />A dinosaur is also mentioned in Job 40. Indicating that man and dinosaur lived at the same time.<br />And also a dragon, Job 41.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11783197560393617239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-34065327818713951142011-01-04T15:37:01.985-08:002011-01-04T15:37:01.985-08:00What an exciting journey. To become aware. Coming ...What an exciting journey. To become aware. Coming to be in the garden with no knowledge of death, nor understanding of limits just the instinctive mind reaching for what one can. Then the tree of knowledge. Becoming aware. Seeing that you are naked, that death comes, that things have consequences, that good and evil exists. And as you look out to this scary place that is the universe and the forces that control it you announce it all as "god". And believe you can bargain with it. Manipulate it for your advantage. The storytellers begin to speak of their deals and the revealing of truths in the this universe/god. That they find things that are pliable and meaningful. And they put these stories down as guideposts to us. For the are now self aware and care enough for each other to try to preserve the knowledge they have gained through testimony,story and myth. Amazing beginning to the journey.Joe Jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14506209278440756150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-87804785779324584772011-01-04T15:33:12.186-08:002011-01-04T15:33:12.186-08:00I've heard that the significance of the number...I've heard that the significance of the number 7 comes from astrology: there are 7 objects in the sky that move against the background of stars: (1) the Sun, (2) the Moon, the visible planets (3) Mercury,(4) Venus, (5) Mars, (6) Jupiter, (7) Saturn.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01218484115495523954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-1582827243283337212011-01-04T15:29:24.518-08:002011-01-04T15:29:24.518-08:00The mates of the early men were clearly close fema...The mates of the early men were clearly close female relatives. The gene pool was much purer at this stage and inbreeding was not a problem.MIssion Updateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00098655868711412055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-62630948955659652332011-01-04T15:27:13.864-08:002011-01-04T15:27:13.864-08:00(such as Jesus's conflicting Davidic lineages ...(such as Jesus's conflicting Davidic lineages in the NT.)<br />These lineages do not conflict. One is his lineage thru Joseph. The other is his lineage thru Mary. Since Mary had no brothers, Jesus was first heir of both grandfathers, both back to the ancestor King David.MIssion Updateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00098655868711412055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-41511129550256757572011-01-04T12:41:22.559-08:002011-01-04T12:41:22.559-08:00+++For no apparent reason, God does not respect Ca...+++For no apparent reason, God does not respect Cain's offering of crops, but respects Abel's offering of lamb. Why would God not respect an offering that Cain clearly worked hard to produce?<br />Grain sacrifices do not involve blood.<br />+++all credibility goes out the window when the list consists of people who lived for 900+ years... <br />They were closer to God back then, don't ya know.<br />+++ number7<br />There was some sort of psychological study a while back (good luck finding it) that suggested that somewhere between 6 and 8 items is all we can really keep in our head, and for longer lists we have to start making groups. Look at the alphabet song:<br />ABCDEFG<br />HIJK<br />LMNOP<br />QRS<br />TUV<br />WXYZ<br />Six groups of 7 or less items. This might be the basis for 7 being a "magic number".Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09945296979516148060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-2989778343882798422011-01-03T10:05:27.210-08:002011-01-03T10:05:27.210-08:00And...yes Jewish and Christians worship the same a...<i>And...yes Jewish and Christians worship the same and only God</i><br /><br />And Muslims, of course?<br /><br />I don't see how the Jewish God and the Christian God can be identical, since only one of them had a son.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-5727147692466469602011-01-03T09:12:23.328-08:002011-01-03T09:12:23.328-08:00Tom, that's great insight. I would gather many...Tom, that's great insight. I would gather many here would appreciate your point of view. I assume most here, like me, are either from a Christian background or live in a majority Christian environment, so I'd guess that many of our religious-based questions will be Christian focused. <br /><br />So your continued help will be appreciated.Chasiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12188734288423170298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-71848951044828244132011-01-03T07:57:31.087-08:002011-01-03T07:57:31.087-08:00To answer your question...
Let me start by saying ...To answer your question...<br />Let me start by saying that once you get through the first five books the age and family tree thing really slows down...a ton. But to answer your question yes...keep in mind God intended us to read the Bible for Faith purposes and learn His law too and not for only family tree purposes.<br /><br />I notice many of these posts are referring to the OT and Christians. Lets remember that the Christian faith did not begin with Genesis but with Matthew. We Christians accept the old teachings but our foundation is with Jesus. <br /><br />Even Jesus had issues with what was being practiced with His Fathers Law in the OT. <br /><br />so many posts should be questioning the Jewish teachings with these OT issues as well.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10695914476049102364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-14207199052205025082011-01-03T00:22:16.158-08:002011-01-03T00:22:16.158-08:00http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/book.php?book=...http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/book.php?book=Genesis&chapter=4&verse=elbuhohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16613464596675152099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-42698448992222144422011-01-03T00:06:05.470-08:002011-01-03T00:06:05.470-08:00A lot of good points tonight, particularly around ...A lot of good points tonight, particularly around the agrarian/hunter-gatherer conflict. <br /><br />Homer also used a list of names at the beginning of the Iliad. I think that list is used to bring in a popular local name into the story and by that establish a larger, multi-village story-telling community. That mechanism might apply here.Chasiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12188734288423170298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-1621917356784611642011-01-02T22:09:22.218-08:002011-01-02T22:09:22.218-08:00Regarding the sons of God in 6:5, is there a clue ...Regarding the sons of God in 6:5, is there a clue to this in 4:1? When Eve delivers Cain, she says that the has "gotten a man from the LORD." Would this perhaps mean that Cains children (Sons of God) are marrying Seth's children (men's daughters), and this mixing causes the anger and the flood?JPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13544014654925231901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-2869703007716300922011-01-02T20:07:49.076-08:002011-01-02T20:07:49.076-08:00I'm interested in Enoch (Jared's son, not ...I'm interested in Enoch (Jared's son, not Cain's. For some reason, they were already running out of names that early.). Everyone else lived upwards of 900 years, but Enoch "only" made it to 365 before "God took him". They never explain how he eats it, but I like to assume that it involved pie.Alex Russelburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12850610730631819049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-71542606555830093802011-01-02T15:16:43.464-08:002011-01-02T15:16:43.464-08:00The other suggestion given for the 'us' is...The other suggestion given for the 'us' is that God is speaking his court (angels for monotheists, lesser gods for polytheists).Erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18037406583478493064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-7173751928005241792011-01-02T15:02:59.025-08:002011-01-02T15:02:59.025-08:00@Cunni: Yes and no... Most folks assume that Yahwe...@Cunni: Yes and no... Most folks assume that Yahweh is using a "royal" us. Most likely the Hebrews went back and forth from monotheism to polytheism and back again as they developed and the world around them developed. Also a lot of less sophisticated apologists will contend that he's conversing with the Angels at this point.<br /><br />Throughout the OT we will find references to other gods. They never form the Greek style pantheon of deities that we might build in a D&D game. They're more likely rivals, each having his chosen people as Yahweh has his. Baal's chosen people just didn't win the historical lottery to hang around long enough to have an impact on modern times.Blotzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06993967190131485391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-46416403689244142502011-01-02T14:59:48.724-08:002011-01-02T14:59:48.724-08:00For one thing, I've seen someone say "God...For one thing, I've seen someone say "God doesn't need to prove himself." - This is my whole problem. GOD didn't write this. I can tell you that if someone I used to date & someone in my family wrote about me...they'd come out different stories completely. These are points of view. I like how someone said that trying to understand this book as a historical document is a silly exercise. Nice, I never thought about it that way. It's really just people's diaries. They were chosen & other books have been left out all together. (Perhaps these were the points of view that were looked down upon???<br /><br />All these begats, and people are living longer lives than us. WOW, we lost some important medical people/equipment/ideas in the flood. I DO think this was a historical (I'm not saying accurate) census. <br /><br />Someone said..."For no apparent reason, God does not respect Cain's offering of crops, but respects Abel's offering of lamb. Why would God not respect an offering that Cain clearly worked hard to produce? This seems like a hastily constructed, and therefore unconvincing, device intended to get us to the author's main story of the murder of Abel." <br /><br />YES! Very nice. I guess, though, since God knows about us from day one, he knew this would happen. Why did he create these people if he KNEW everyone would be so evil? <br /><br />"Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold."<br /><br />There sure is a lot of talk about vengeance and hate. I thought "God is love"?<br /><br />Getting into the flood story...that is a LOT of water and a little bitty raft for all those animals. What about food for these meat-eating animals. I guess he has to gather and kill a lot of food to feed all those animals and his family. Wouldn't that fill the raft all on it's own?? <br /><br />Good call, everyone, on the wife situation. There are a lot of things left out already. We are only reading the first book. So there were giants too? I didn't even know there were giants...but it seems that these women that "pop" into the story are said to have procreated with them. Someone said the creationist museum labeled them as dinosaurs...procreation with dinosaurs? <br /><br /><br />Reading this over again (I haven't read anything since Sunday school as a child) makes me angry. I feel lied to, I feel brainwashed. I've got to "learn to walk again" without the "crutch" of the bible. <br /><br /><br />"Something I just thought of: If there was enough water to cover all the mountains at just under 7 meters, then wouldn't that seriously alter the earth/moons orbital dynamics? The oceans we have now influence the Moons orbit, what would an entire sloshing liquid planet do?"<br /><br />****Wow, very cool point. I like that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-24919825870181604542011-01-02T14:13:19.754-08:002011-01-02T14:13:19.754-08:00Antonios thanks, I was just going to ask about age...Antonios thanks, I was just going to ask about ages. That's a great explanation.<br /><br />On another issue from yesterday. G1:26 says Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish..."<br /><br />Us? Is there more than one god in the beginning?CDChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09532382638637024205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-79598868891945486132011-01-02T13:39:15.914-08:002011-01-02T13:39:15.914-08:00Reaching waaay back to my OT studies under Jesuits...Reaching waaay back to my OT studies under Jesuits in high school, I recall that "longer life = more holy". These are not so much calculations of age, but ratings of comparative holiness, hence the decline in lifespan through (most) generations, showing the gradual corruption of humanity, and their increasing distance from God.Antoniushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08743496623839689574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-45370984930448493492011-01-02T12:29:24.858-08:002011-01-02T12:29:24.858-08:00I suspect God's preference for meat reflects t...I suspect God's preference for meat reflects the high value that meat likely had in Biblical times. It was probably the most nutritious food source available to them (much like it is today), and I suspect that only the wealthier members of society could get regular access to it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-63059316532328656402011-01-02T10:57:22.530-08:002011-01-02T10:57:22.530-08:00Asimovs Guide to the Bible, which is an invaluable...Asimovs Guide to the Bible, which is an invaluable resource for this sort of endeavor, explains the long list of antediluvian patriarchs as a reflection of ancient Sumerian legends which contained long lists of kings who ruled for thousands of years. The methuselan ages in these lists may seem silly to us now, but the original storytellers probably thought they were being much more sensible than their Sumerian predecessors. <br /><br />Actually a lot of this early bible is best understood in light of preceding Sumerian myths. There's a direct parallell between Noah and Gigamesh.Blotzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06993967190131485391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4648300866401965494.post-21593816496931956132011-01-02T10:01:28.867-08:002011-01-02T10:01:28.867-08:00Not really, not without corroborating historical d...Not really, not without corroborating historical documents to back it up. <br /><br />But it is a good device to give a <i>sense</i> of credibility.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14638466815150788918noreply@blogger.com