Posts
I'm busy with work but want to get done with this chapter before Jesus shows up again.
The big climax (first version anyway)!
It almost passover and Jesus knows the end is near. He blames society. Society made him.
He tells his disciples to eat his body and drink his blood metaphorically (although the metaphor is totally lost on me. What does this symbolize?).
Catholics seem to take this almost literally for some reason. I personally find that pretty absurd.
Here's the lawyer speak explanation.
He asks his dad if he can get out of this dying for the sins of others plan. It doesn't make sense. But God/Father doesn't answer so he's screwed.
While the other followers sleep off the celebration, Judas gives Jesus up for 30 pieces of silver and seals the LORDS fate with a kiss. A Judas Kiss.
When the law comes knocking, Jesus' pals go running but that's OK, it's all part of the master plan. The Jews smack Jesus around before taking him to see the governor.
The priests want Jesus dead for personal/political reasons and Pilate knows this. He tries to scare the population straight by letting the crowd decide between releasing either Barabbas, a generic bad guy, or Jesus, destroyer of the status quo. The crowd picks Barrabas and condemns Jesus to death by crucifixion.
So it is true that the Jews killed Jesus. But, if they didn't the world wouldn't have all those great churches, and the cast of the Jersey Shore and rappers wouldn't have shiny crucifix bling to wear around their necks.
Do you think Snooki reads the bible?
Jesus gets beat up and mocked some more . Then nailed to a cross. He dies and is put into a followers tomb, where he supposedly raises from the dead a day and a half later. Everyone that believes this goes to heaven and lives happily ever after. The end.
While I can believe that someone named Jesus may have existed and that he may have pissed off the high priests of the temple and gotten himself killed, the whole reasoning falls flat.
Once again I question god's thinking.
Discuss.
Falls flat...how?
ReplyDelete2 thousand years later people are reading and talking about the penniless Preacher. The Son only preached for 3 years.
He died for man's sins. The resurrection tells me that our death on this planet is not the end, but the beginning of life. Jesus pointed out how the Jewish high priest and the like strayed from Gods path...The Trinity got the word out before and after Jesus' human "death". In my opinion, Jesus still lives, since He is the Son of God and all.
Please explain...falls flat.
Tom,
DeleteWhy did Jesus have to die for man's sins? What is a sin? Do ALL humans commit sin? Are we born sinful?
This is the reasoning I've gleaned from reading the bible so far;
God knowingly creates an imperfect man and then sets mankind up repeatedly to sin and fail in the eyes of this god.
Then, after centuries of killing people for breaking his rules (which he already knew they would do), God decides he wants to give people a chance to get into heaven, but first he has have a way to 'remove the sin'
His solution is to create a half-man/half-god named Jesus and send him to Earth to let people know about the new plan. When he's done teaching, (mankind) will kill Jesus. After a few days, Jesus will rise from the dead and ascend to heaven.
This will free men from the constraints of sin and allow all them to go to heaven and be with Jesus when they die (if they accept Jesus as their savior).
I know you are very well versed in the New Testament. Please break it down for this confused, fallen catholic!
@Bruce regarding your Catholic comments.
ReplyDeleteI don't mean to come across sarcastically but did you fully read the links you posted? If you did then it should be very easy to see the symbolism. Re read transformation/ transfiguration.
It sounds like you still have some issues with what you learned pre-Vatican II. Sorry you had to go through that. The North American Catholic Churches are still not in good standing with the Vatican. Catholic Americans from 1900 through the 60s really messed up the interpretation that was coming out of the Vatican. And you got to learn all of that. Sorry. In the 90s many schools hosted apology segments during reunions to explain their wrong teachings of the Church.
I look back at what they taught you and just shake my head. The 10% rule...gone...Priests give advice during confession now...and the whole Adam and Eve thing is a parable.
Anyway I only state this since you sort of mis spoke of Catholics above.
Tom,
ReplyDeleteBe as sarcastic as you want! I am.
I read the links. The second one was just for laughs. Do they really need lawyer speak to explain catholic ritual?!?!
I was going to post from the Vatican website but I couldn't find an actual definition of transubstantiation.
I'm guessing most catholics don't believe in the host literally turning into the body of Jesus but I find the metaphor strange and odd. Why eat and drink the symbolic body and blood? To what end?
As for having issues with pre Vatican II teachings, I have issues with the church in general. How can the simple teaching of Jesus get corrupted into an industry that churns out endless dogma and ritual and has it's leader living in a palace, wearing ornate clothes and having possessions of gold and jewels.
As for parables, I think we do agree that most of the Old Testament is made up of parables and are just stories by ancient people trying to make sense of the world they lived in.
My question to you is, why do you consider the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus to be real and not a parable? His story is no more believable then the story of Moses or Elisha, just more pleasant to read.
Bruce stated:
ReplyDeleteand has it's leader living in a palace, wearing ornate clothes and having possessions of gold and jewels.
The Vatican, which is about the size of the Science and Industry Chicago, is home to many priests and Cardinals and is also a university and has dorms. Just like Washington D.C., it is a place of law as well so it has study halls and courtrooms as well as libraries.
It looks like a palace but so does Capital Hill.
wearing ornate clothes,,,You would be surprised on how old those ornate clothes are. Many priests will tell you that they are as old as they have been priests. And just like in the American military when soldiers have to pay for their own uniforms, so do priests.
The priest at our old church still had his garments and has worn the same ones since 1980.
The same with many priests of the C.R.
As an E.M., I have seen the prices of the gold (and sometimes gold plated) cups, plates, candleholders etc. And on the surface they are overpriced but do last multiple lifetimes.
Imagine spending $2,000 on plates, napkins, and cups but then they last 200 years.
The plate I use at church is older than me and not a scratch on it. Its better than buying some cheap plate that can break with one drop or simply chip with constant washing.
Next time I see you I will show you one of the catalogs.
Gold and Jewels...well Bruce you sound like Judas Iscariot. Just read John Chapter 12. Many people donate gold and jewels to the Vatican specifically for the Pope or other uses like crosses and the like. But since all Popes have a bloodline back to St. Peter, is my only guess why people do it....and perhaps John 12.
Bruce stated:
ReplyDeleteMy question to you is, why do you consider the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus to be real and not a parable? His story is no more believable then the story of Moses or Elisha, just more pleasant to read.
I could go all night on this so I will try to keep it short...some reasons are below:
-Pilate and Caesar did exist. Peter did exist. Where in the Bible are historical people placed within parables? these stories would be lies not parables.
-I consider them to be real since, I personally believe, it is written in the Bible and that the acts of the Holy Trinity keep the message accurate.
Just as God told Job, we are to listen to Him, we can't possibly understand His plan for the greater good. Read, Pray, Love. Think of 3-D sam telling 2-D sam on how to escape out of a box drawn completely around him. It just can't happen.
-The short book called The Great Divorce puts it best. I will let you read it for yourself, you may get something out of it that I did not since it is somewhat open to interpretation.
-The devil owns this planet, thanks to humans not listening to God. God is here to walk us through the valley. Thats why it is important to pray and hear what God says to us, God will guide us on the right path.
This site explains how the fallen angel rules this rock:
http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-1198.0.html
-John 20 verse 28 and 29.
-No other man in the history of life who's "professional" career only lasted 3 years is still changing lives 2,000 years later. Regular humans could not keep a perfect game of telephone going on for that long. We would have messed it up easy. Look at how we use the Internet and print, people mis-interpret quotes and stories all of the time.
Its the work of the Holy Spirit that keeps His message true.
-Even after all the wars and all of the evil deeds used to cover up that Jesus existed, The Bible still exist. How did this Book survive for so long?
Here are some Jewish links that Jesus did exist:
http://shatteredparadigm.blogspot.com/2008/12/extraordinary-extrabiblical-evidence.html
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/jesus/proofessay
Ancient Evidence for Jesus from Non-Christian Sources:
http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4223639/k.567/Ancient_Evidence_for_Jesus_from_NonChristian_Sources.htm
I will get this book from the library:
http://books.google.com/books/about/Jesus_outside_the_New_Testament.html?id=lwzliMSRGGkC
@Tom,
DeleteIf inserting historical figures and events makes a story true, then are the books of the prophets true?
Is Moby Dick true? Platos tale of Atlantis?
I know this is an impossible request based on scope, but what do you consider in the OT to be a parable and what is factual? A few highlights will do.
The creation story?
The flood to destroy all life on earth?
The story of Abraham and sons?
The exodus?
The story of David?
The fall of Israel?
Some other comments;
-I do agree that for the short time that Jesus was around, he REALLY left his mark!
-The game of telephone is not necessary to keep the story going once it's been committed to paper and that paper has become canon.
-The Bible has existed so long because people believe it. That doesn't make it true.
@Bruce
DeleteI think Tom means by bloodline either that the Pope is Bishop of Rome and a successor of Peter who is traditionally considered the first Bishop of Rome (this is despite times when there have been two or even three Bishops of Rome at the same time). The other is something called 'apostolic succession'. In the Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican churches (and a few others) a new bishop is created by someone who is already a bishop (and often several bishops) by the laying on of hands. There is suppose to be an unbroken line of this back to the original apostles including Peter. I don't see how bloodline got into this.
BTW of your list I suspect David did exist though the stories have become legend and Israel did fall.
And finally...
ReplyDeleteOut of all woman who wear crosses next to their fake breasts, why Snooki?
@Tom, sorry for the delay in responding. Work is just letting up enough for some free time.
ReplyDeleteThe age or durability of the popes belonging are fairly inconsequential to my statement. I meant to say (and should have said); why does a Christian leader need possessions at all?
Jesus commanded his apostiles in Mark and Matthew;
6:7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
6:8 And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse
6:9 But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats.
It's pretty clear to me that Jesus is telling them to be humble and not be dependent on the material world.
I would suggest that the Dalai Lama is a much better representative of a holy man spreading the word then the Pope.
I at least hope that the Pope lives on a diet of locusts and honey!
Also, your statement "But since all Popes have a bloodline back to St. Peter..." seems impossible on the surface, could you please explain?
@Tom,
ReplyDeleteOh and I used Snooki because she was the first image I found when i searched "cross necklace". Blame the collective low IQ of the internet!