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More ranting about the same ol' thing.
As an aside, the Skeptics Annotated Bible has some interesting side bars on the prophesies that didn't quite come true. I usually read the SAB with a skeptical eye since it's EXTREMELY biased, but the parts they pointed out are pretty obvious errors.
4 more days of Ezekial and then we get to the quickie one day books of the OT before Jesus shows up!
@Bruce,
ReplyDeleteWhy not be more specific on what prophecies you think are in error. Then we can discuss them. The SAB is just a source that's going to agree with your position. Have you searched for an explanation of the verses you think are in error?
@Edward,
ReplyDeleteLook for the blue scroll icon to the right on the SAB. There are several.
Also, I agree with you that the SAB is a biased source, but, history tends to disagree with the bible from time to time.
I think the one everyone knows is in Ezekiel 26:14 where Tyre will be destroyed by Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon and never rebuilt (Tyre still exists, it was never taken by Nebuchadrezzar [it was taken by Alexander some 200 years later]).
ReplyDeleteIn Ezekiel 29:17-19, God admits that Tyre hadn't been destroyed by the king (though the king tried and tried).
17 In the twenty-seventh year, in the first month on the first day, the word of the LORD came to me: 18 “Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon drove his army in a hard campaign against Tyre; every head was rubbed bare and every shoulder made raw. Yet he and his army got no reward from the campaign he led against Tyre.
@Bruce,
ReplyDeleteI don't want to know what the SAB says, i want to know what you say. You said you viewed the SAB with a skeptical eye, so i don't want to spend time on something your not questioning.
@Erp,
Nebuchadnezzar was the first of many nations that would come up against Tyre. 26:3 If he was supposed to utterly destroy them, then there is no need to say many nations.
@Edward, Nebuchadnezzar was suppose to destroy the walls and sack the city 26:9-12. However he couldn't; the city negotiated a peace with him and (according to a later chapter of Ezekiel) he had to look for loot in Egypt in order to pay his army. I will note for a city that was never to be rebuilt (26:14), it is doing remarkably well today (pop. 60,000, 174,000 in the metropolitan area). Is this a prophecy still to come?
ReplyDeleteSo why does Ezekiel first say many nations and then Nebuchadnezzar? Perhaps because the king's army consisted of many nations (he is after all king of kings and each of the subordinate kings presumably heads a nation).
As a sidenote, Ezekiel's prophecies are dated by the year of King Jehoiachin's exile to Babylon (Ezekiel as one of the elite was in exile with him). This one is dated to the 11th year which is also the year of the destruction of Jerusalem (586BCE). Tyre itself did not fall until 332BCE to Alexander, who promptly rebuilt the city.
@Erp,
ReplyDeleteIs that city as important as it was in the past? Tyre back in that time was important and had wealthy people. Has it been rebuilt to that state today? It's in my opinion that people would say nothing can be built again where Tyre was, instead of looking at how powerful Tyre was and saying, it won't be rebuilt to that state again.
So why does Ezekiel first say many nations and then Nebuchadnezzar?
I ask why not? He mentions many nations and then writes about the first.
he is after all king of kings and each of the subordinate kings presumably heads a nation
Okay.. or he is king and there are other kings of city-states? Not of other nations.
Tyre itself did not fall until 332BCE to Alexander, who promptly rebuilt the city.
So to answer "is this prophecy still to come?" Nope that's the end of Tyre. It has yet to be rebuilt to the state it once was.
First relatively it is not as important but I expect the standard of living for most people in the city is far higher than in Ezekiel's time (longer life span, better health, better education, etc.). Second the prophecy doesn't say that Tyre would become a lesser city (it btw remained an important city until quite recently) but that "I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt".
ReplyDeleteThe word 'nation' (goy, plural goyim) in the Bible could well mean a group of people as small as a city-state.
@Erp,
ReplyDeleteTyre has not held the prominence it once had. When it was destroyed it has never been built again. Yes people can move in and live longer, yet Tyre doesn't have the power or security it once had. This prophecy has been fulfilled.
Also i have read "Tyre has served as a “quarry” for the whole coast. Her stones may be found as far away as Beirut (40 mi north) and Akko (25 mi south in Israel)."
Today Tyre is a depressed city that suffered greatly during Lebanon’s civil war and Israel’s subsequent occupation of southern Lebanon. The modern isthmus that joins the island to the mainland holds streets of houses and shops. There is a picturesque fishing harbor on the north side of the isthmus, adjoining a lively souq. The administrative center for a number of nearby villages and towns, Tyre has a number of unplanned squatter settlements. As important as any industry to modern Tyre are the Greek and Roman archaeological remains which cover the ancient mainland city of Palaetyrus, the accumulated isthmus and the island city.
Source: biblearchaeology.org
They may just be saying that to help this prophecy along. :-D
I also read The Fall of Tyre and Destruction of Tyre
There are two ways to read this. From the perspective that you want the prophecy to be false, so you accept anything that supports that position, the other being the prophecy is correct and what data supports that position. We each will believe what we want to believe because that's what we want to believe, and we will both have something to support our belief.