Friday, January 21, 2011

Wherefore art thou Satan?

This just popped into my head so I thought I'd throw it out there.

Up until now, bad things has been caused by man or God.
When does Satan,  the Devil, Beelzebubba make an appearance?
The serpent in the Garden of Eden doesn't count.  He not referred to as evil, only sneaky.
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13 comments:

  1. ziaJanuary 21, 2011 at 3:45 PM

    I have a friend who's pseudo-Christian (don't even ask) and he would probably say that Satan is just a metaphor for the evil that is in all of us, and therefore he has appeared in the Bible already. I never really know what to say to this.

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  2. UnknownJanuary 21, 2011 at 4:08 PM

    I think it might be: Isaiah 14, but I'm on a similar quest to yours and haven't gotten there yet.

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  3. momof atheistsJanuary 21, 2011 at 4:38 PM

    The modern concept of Hell and I think Satan comes from Dante's Divine Comedy; another worthy bit of lit to study. I have read it once and the descriptions of the many circles of hell are powerful but ultimately political commentary on Dante's contemporaries.
    Jewish tradition has no afterlife and therefore no hell.
    As we have seen so far God is perfectly capable of scaring the crap out of folks on his own with out help from Lucifer.

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  4. TomJanuary 21, 2011 at 6:34 PM

    Great question Bruce.

    I would agree with Zia in post number 1.
    I would just like to add that the Bible, is Gods word and not satan. These 1st five books were not intended to read as a God vs. satan saga. That happens in the book of Revelation.

    The first five books, according to the Catholic Church, are meant to establish the birth of the People of God and the promises made to them and forward to the continuing fulfillment of these promises in later books.

    Which is why satan is not a character in the books...yet. Look at my last link...he will be ready to become a main character soon.

    But there are plenty of places where he tempted Gods People into not following Gods Law in the first five books. but you have to first believe in that whole free will thing. Now that Gods People have free will, they have the choice on following Gods law...satan temptation...or their own independent way, away from any and all supreme spiritual leadership or guidance.

    Ezekiel 28:15 and Genesis 3 are tied close together.

    @Bruce...I hope my 2nd link helps you out although it is mostly NT.

    Sources:

    -The Pentateuch as written in any Catholic Bible. One can find it right before Genesis.

    http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/lucifer.html

    http://lord-is-love.blogspot.com/2010/11/why-did-god-allow-satan-and-demons-to.html

    http://hubpages.com/hub/Bible-Verses-About-Satan

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  5. TomJanuary 21, 2011 at 6:36 PM

    My first source should read the Pentateuch summary as written in any Catholic Bible...
    Since the first five are technically called the Pentateuch.

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  6. TomJanuary 21, 2011 at 6:59 PM

    @ Mom...

    I regret to inform you but the Jewish Faith is a little more complex on the afterlife than you put it. Depending on the Rabbi of course, you get several points-of-view. If you are to look at any links...please click on the last one and read the first sentence or the first summary point in the top right side.
    But you are correct that they do not believe in hell as Christians do. It is more of a cleansing process. A place where you are not in Heaven but have to prepare for it.

    Sources:
    -http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_heavenhell.htm

    -http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/beliefs/afterlife.htm

    -http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/afterlife.html

    http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm

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  7. LorraineJanuary 21, 2011 at 7:28 PM

    I think Satan appears in the book of J.O.B.

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  8. BruceJanuary 21, 2011 at 7:31 PM

    Thanks Tom.

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  9. BHittJanuary 21, 2011 at 7:56 PM

    @momofatheists: My wife has studied Dante quite a bit and she says you're right on. Inferno is considered to be the origin of the modern hell and Satan. Satan is an evolving character over history. He shows up in the OT, such as in Job, but there he's portrayed as an associate of God's who functions sort of like Socrates's interlocutors in Plato's dialogues.

    I think it will be a good exercise to notice how the OT authors treat the question of where evil comes from as we read.

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  10. AnonymousJanuary 21, 2011 at 10:50 PM

    I've fallen a bit behind, having finished Genesis only yesterday, so pardon me if I'm covering ground already traveled. It seems there's no Satan yet because there's no need for one. God hasn't handed down his 10 commandments yet (at least up to where I'm at now) because, accordering to Jack Miles's "God: A Biography," he's still making things up as he goes along. God didn't realize murder was bad until after Cain slew Abel. Generic "wickedness" is blamed for the flood, but close reading the text reveals that "wickedness" probably has more to do with man's success with controlling his own fertility. Simeon and Levi are never punished for killing all the male Hivites even though the Hivites explicitly enter into a covenant with God (through circumcision). And Judah and his brothers are never punished for selling Joseph into slavery, something that becomes a capital offense later on. God isn't about good and evil at all yet because that's not the game he's playing. Right now he's just trying to latch on to someone successful who'll spread his name.

    As an aside, I recommended Miles's book before, and after having read through the sections on Genesis, I'm going to have to double my recommendation. His interpretation of the story of Abraham almost sacrificing Isaac paints a completely different picture than what we initially thought. Throughout his life, it seems that Abraham never trusted God, is very cynical about his methods and motives (remember the argument between the two over the fate of Sodom?), and openly mocks God several times. Sarah even gets in on the act twice. Knowing this completely changes how one looks at Abraham's actions on the mountain with Isaac. God isn't testing Abraham, Abraham is testing God. Reread Abraham's chapters in Genesis with this in mind, and Abraham becomes a skeptic and God a johnny-come-lately.

    Also, circumcision is how God takes back power over man's fertility, and that angel Jacob wrestled with was actually his brother, Esau.

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  11. BHittJanuary 22, 2011 at 6:17 AM

    @Diomedes: Thanks for that! That's a fascinating reading of Genesis. I've heard before that there are textual hints of the flood story having a population control theme but I don't remember the specifics. I'll move the Miles book to the top of my list.

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  12. LorraineJanuary 22, 2011 at 11:36 AM

    Satan (שׂטן) is said to mean 'accuser,' or 'adversary.'

    To me, Satan as presented in the book of J.O.B. appears to be more of an adversary of man than of God, with whom he is clearly on (seemingly friendly) speaking terms. But I suppose we'll get to J.O.B. by May 28, based on interpolation by page numbers of my particular RSV.

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  13. AnonymousJanuary 22, 2011 at 11:16 PM

    But I suppose we'll get to J.O.B. by May 28, based on interpolation by page numbers of my particular RSV.

    Why is Job's name in capitals? Are you making an Arrested Development reference? Come on!

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