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Exodus 23-24
God mixes in some good farming tips among the societal and worship laws.
My question is "Why does God want his people to waste food?" Do they get to eat the burnt offerings?
I understand that he demands sacrifice from his people but couldn't that be accomplished thru fasting?
Wouldn't a Festival of the Harvest be a nice way for man to say thank you?
God promises to drive out those who would oppose his people. I like his plan. Slowly but surley.
Exodus 23:31 sets the boundary for the land of the Israelites. If God created the Earth, and the Israelites are God's people, why would he give them such a small and infertile place to live? Why wouldn't he tell them to go to Italy, France or Spain?
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI've been a lurker all year but thought I would quickly answer a couple of your questions. Later, in the book of Leviticus, it will be made clear that the sacrifices, for the most part, are able to be eaten. In fact, it will be built in to the giving system, so that the tribe of Levi will have compensation for serving as the priesthood.
As for the climate of Israel; though there is great disagreement, a worldview based on the Bible, at least from a "young earth" perspective, would see the Promised Land as very fertile and lush. This is because the earth was still recovering from the "ice age" after the flood.
It is at least one explanation for the disparity between the descriptions of the land in the biblical narrative and the desert we see today.
Interesting how 23:1-19 (part of E's Covenant Code) seems to be a variant of J's pseudo-Ten Commandments. (ch. 34)
ReplyDeleteHere is a very rough parsing out of the laws. I've bolded the ones that are also given in J's Decalogue. (12 is slightly different.)
1- Don't bear false witness
2- Return wandering oxen
3- Don't screw over the poor or take bribes(this passage seems to be written for lawgivers, not the general public)
4- Don't screw over foreigners
5- leave fields fallow every 7th year
6- rest every 7th day
7- Obey me, not other gods
8- Unleavened bread festival
9- Harvest festival, Ingathering.
10- Three times a year males should "come into the presence of the Lord"- what does this mean?
11- Don't mix sacrificial blood with leavened goods
12- Don't let the sacrificial fat sit overnight
13- Bring your best stuff for sacrifice
14- Don't boil a kid in it's mother's milk
At 24:7 Moses takes out the "scroll of the covenant" and reads out the Law YHWH had spoken. This must be E's version of the Tablets.
In E, God spoke the Covenant Code and it was written on a scroll.
In J, God spoke the Ten Commandments (another covenant), and it was carved on two tablets my Moses.
In P, God gave the rules for building the Tabernacle and proper sacrifice protocol, and wrote this himself on two tablets.
If God created the Earth, and the Israelites are God's people, why would he give them such a small and infertile place to live? Why wouldn't he tell them to go to Italy, France or Spain?
Yeah you think if they had 40 years to wander, they would have wandered to a nicer location.
@Ryan Rippee & @Bruce
ReplyDelete"why would he give them such a small and infertile place to live?"
When God gave them this land it was fertile and large. (Exodus 3:8)
Now after so many thousands of years of people in that land consuming its resources it's not the desolate rocky place we see today. Just think of the US and the dirty 30's AKA Dust Bowel AKA the Black Blizzard. (Man does not always listen to God on how to farm. :-D I hear China is having the same problem right now, and won't take advice from the Americans.) Coupled with the fact that the people of Israel violated the covenant. We see what God said they would get. It comes later.
To everyone now. Take note of 24:7 The people say "All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient." It won't take them long to go back on that. They did not take God serious i guess. We still have the same problem today, not taking God serious. That is if there is a God right? :-P
@betterthanesdras
ReplyDelete"3- Don't screw over the poor or take bribes(this passage seems to be written for lawgivers, not the general public)"
You are not the only one that noticed that, however the last part is for everyone.
(MHC)
The judges are here cautioned not to pervert judgment. (1.) They must not be overruled, either by might or multitude, to go against their consciences in giving judgment, 2. With the Jews causes were tried by a bench of justices, and judgment given according to the majority of votes, in which cause every particular justice must go according to truth, as it appeared to him upon the strictest and most impartial enquiry, though the multitude of the people, and their outcries, or, the sentence of the rabbim (we translate it many), the more ancient and honourable of the justices, went the other way. Therefore (as with us), among the Jews, the junior upon the bench voted first, that he might not be swayed nor overruled by the authority of the senior. Judges must not respect the persons either of the parties or of their fellow-judges. The former part of this verse also gives a general rule for all, as well as judges, not to follow a multitude to do evil. General usage will never excuse us in a bad practice; nor is the broad way ever the better or safer for its being tracked and crowded. We must enquire what we ought to do, not what the majority do; because we must be judged by our Master, not by our fellow-servants, and it is too great a compliment to be willing to go to hell for company.
@betterthanesdras
ReplyDelete"10- Three times a year males should "come into the presence of the Lord"- what does this mean?"
Thrice a year all their males must come together in a holy convocation, that they might the better know and love one another, and keep up their communion as a dignified and peculiar people. 2. They must come together before the Lord ( 17) to present themselves before him, looking towards the place where his honour dwelt, and to pay their homage to him as their great Lord, from and under whom they held all their enjoyments. 3. They must feast together before the Lord, eating and drinking together, in token of their joy in God and their grateful sense of his goodness to them; for a feast is made for laughter, Ecclesiastes 10:19 O what a good Master do we serve, who has made it our duty to rejoice before him, who feasts his servants when they are in waiting! Never let religion be called a melancholy thing, when its solemn services are solemn feasts.
@Bruce: "My question is "Why does God want his people to waste food?" Do they get to eat the burnt offerings? I understand that he demands sacrifice from his people but couldn't that be accomplished thru fasting?"
ReplyDeleteAs Ryan said, they ate the sacrifices and they had a harvest festival. The reason for sacrifice, though maybe not evident to everyone yet but present all through the Bible, is that the sacrifice is a graphic object lesson to teach that sin brings death. "Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins." The sacrifices secured a temporary forgiveness of sins; the sacrifice of Christ superceded the OT sacrifices and secured permanent forgiveness for those who put faith in him.
"The sacrifices secured a temporary forgiveness of sins; the sacrifice of Christ superceded the OT sacrifices and secured permanent forgiveness for those who put faith in him."
ReplyDeleteWell said, Euslyss. I was hoping someone would bring up the "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins" verse and point it to Christ. :)
@Kim, Euslyss,
ReplyDeleteI think I get the Christian perspective that sacrifice maybe considered a temporary forgiveness of sin, but I don't believe we get that message in these passages.
How do you suppose the Israelites at the time made of these sacrifices?
I agree with Chasia - at this point in the narrative, there is no Christian perspective to be had. Bear in mind that I haven't read the entire Bible ever (frankly, I know most of the stories that I do through other art forms - movies, plays, novels, etc...) and as I am approaching it like any other book, I can only deal with what is in the text at this point. Perhaps later I can look back and say, "ah, yes, that makes sense."
ReplyDelete@Edward, to answer an earlier question, I have the English Standard Version on my Kindle. I have a hard copy (not sure which version) in the house somewhere as well, but we just moved and the books haven't been unpacked yet!
Last, 24:18 Moses stayed on the mountain 40 days and 40 nights. Wasn’t this the same amount of time as the flood? Is there a significance to this number?
"As for the climate of Israel; though there is great disagreement, a worldview based on the Bible, at least from a "young earth" perspective, would see the Promised Land as very fertile and lush. This is because the earth was still recovering from the "ice age" after the flood. "
ReplyDeleteThe version I learned in my Jewish conversion classes was that Israel is a dust bowl because it belongs to the Jewish people, and once the right people are back in the right place "the desert will bloom." The rabbi used the recent agricultural projects going on in Israel as evidence, though I don't think "the Palestinians didn't grow stuff here" is the same thing as "the Palestinians *couldn't* grow stuff here."
Of course, the class wasn't taught from a young earth creationist perspective, either. ;)
@Chasia and Susan,
ReplyDeleteYou are right. At this point we don't read much about the sacrifices and the purpose for them. When some of these laws in Exodus are unpacked in Leviticus, there will be much detail about them: sin offerings, thanksgiving offerings, etc.
"If God created the Earth, and the Israelites are God's people, why would he give them such a small and infertile place to live?"
ReplyDeleteThis is a great question. What does Yahweh think is so special about this little strip along the Mediterranean?
We can also ask what Nkulunkulu thinks is so special about a little strip at the Southern tip of Africa. What is so special to Itzamna about the Yucatan Peninsula? Why is Ra so concerned about the land around the Nile? We can ask thousands of questions like this about the patchwork of peoples and their deities that has covered the earth since ancient times.
It's sort of the anthropic principal of ancient literature. The people that created the text that is currently in our hands had to come from somewhere. They happen to be from this little infertile bit of the Middle East.
From a historical standpoint, the nation of Israel began as an alliance of tribes of herding people in conflict with their urban Canaanite neighbors. Part of their alliance was the worship of a common god, Yahweh, who aided them in their battles. They use their cultural narrative here in the Bible to establish that their god wants them to control this land. From our modern and global perspective, it may seem like an arbitrary and undesirable piece of land but for those telling the story it is THE land.
The borders given here as well as in Genesis 15 and Numbers 34 serve as a kind of wish list of the land they would like to control, which is, for better or worse, still the wish list of many conservative Israelis today.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe version I learned in my Jewish conversion classes was that Israel is a dust bowl because it belongs to the Jewish people, and once the right people are back in the right place "the desert will bloom."
ReplyDeleteThat's, um, fairly despicable. (Holding my tongue.)
which is, for better or worse, still the wish list of many conservative Israelis today.
The modern map doesn't really have anything to do with the territory held by the ancient Israelites. When did they ever control the Negeb south to the gulf of Aqaba? Wonder when they'll steal the trans-jordan tribes "back" from Jordan?
Funny how the Philistine cities roughly correspond to the modern Gaza strip.
My OpenID is having issues so I'm logging in differently now- this is Betterthanesdras.
Well put, Brian, and that is exactly the way I read things. The big question for me has always been, why did the narrative of these tribes become so important to my ancestors. I know that reading the book won't answer my big question, but I really enjoy the discussions.
ReplyDeleteExodus 23:9 "Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt."
ReplyDeleteI love the justification for this law, "for ye know the heart of a stranger." As humans, we can all know the hearts of people that might be wronged by our actions; We've all been on the flip-side of that coin. Good things follow when we behave according to these sentiments regardless of our metaphysical outlook.
In Exodus 23:28, Yahweh gets pretty specific about what his contributions to the conquest will be like: "And I will send hornets before thee, which shall drive out the Hivite, the Canaanite, and the Hittite, from before thee." It's wonderful nature god imagery.
Exodus 24:3 tells us all the Israelites "answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do." Prof. Christine Hayes in the Yale Open Course says that this probably would have looked to the authors, particularly those of the priestly school, like a great place to insert any law content they wanted to legitimize. It's kind of like filling out a blank check.
Prof. Robert Oden points out that you can pretty much tear out this huge chunk of the OT that occurs at Sinai and not really notice that anything is missing from the standpoint of the narrative. It certainly has the characteristics of an insertion or an expansion. It looks to me like a way of working a bunch of non-narrative content (mostly legal and cultic ritual) into the narrative so as to historicize it. A little clunky in my opinion, kind of like Francisco D'anconia's "money speech" for those familiar with Atlas Shrugged.
Prof. Robert Oden points out that you can pretty much tear out this huge chunk of the OT that occurs at Sinai and not really notice that anything is missing from the standpoint of the narrative. It certainly has the characteristics of an insertion or an expansion. It looks to me like a way of working a bunch of non-narrative content (mostly legal and cultic ritual) into the narrative so as to historicize it. A little clunky in my opinion, kind of like Francisco D'anconia's "money speech" for those familiar with Atlas Shrugged.
ReplyDeleteThat was the exact conclusion I came to when I read through it. They couldn't just plop the law down into the narrative. Why not give it the ultimate authority- put it in the mouth of God. Both E and J did this, and P takes it to the ludicrous extreme.
The resulting narrative is ugly and bloated. Moses is running up and down the mountain, making speech after speech. Poor guy's gunna have a heart attack.
@Susan
ReplyDelete"Last, 24:18 Moses stayed on the mountain 40 days and 40 nights. Wasn’t this the same amount of time as the flood? Is there a significance to this number?"
Some think there is something with 40. However with the flood it only rained for 40 days and nights. The flood was actually allot longer.
Genesis 7:4,7:12 It rained for 40 days and nights, Genesis 25:20 Isaac was forty years old when he married Rebekah, Genesis 50:3 Jacob was embalmed 40 day thing?, Exodus 16:35 The children of Israel did eat manna forty years. Exodus 24:18 Moses 40 days... u know that one. Exodus 34:28, Joshua 14:7 Joshua was forty years old when he was sent out as a spy. Jonah 3:4 Jonah warns the city in forty days it will be overthrown. I skipped allot.
So ya there seems to be something with forty. Good eye.