There was something on the History channel where they were talking about Deborah. The name of the show slips my mind. However what i do remember them saying, because i truly believe it is wrong, was that Deborah was a great military leader. And how she lead the people to victory over their enemies. Now why i think their conclusion is wrong is:
God did the bulk of the warring. Barak and his crew just had to chase the enemy down. Another thing Deborah was a prophetess. And she is taking to it to speak a word from God. If this word she spoke does not come to pass, she did not speak the Word of God, and should not be suffered to live. (Deuteronomy 18:20). To me it's hard to save others from a false prophet when your dead. That is why Barak, i believe, said he would not go unless Deborah went with him. Kinda like; if this word is from God you won't mind going with us. If she said no, then it would lead him to believe that she was not speaking true words from God. This is that iron chariot army that they had feared before.
Don't know if anyone else saw that program, but since the intro for today was short i thought i would add something. :-D
Well there is also Jael who actually killed the enemy leader.
More seriously Deborah seems to have been an established not a new prophet and leader (judge can also be translated as chieftain) so Barak doubting her words could be said to doubt God.
BTW One Midrash considers Barak to be Deborah's husband.
Also the Song of Deborah is generally considered to have the most archaic Hebrew of any part of the Bible (therefore also a bit more difficult to translate) and should be considered separately from the narrative. It should also be noted that the list of tribes is incomplete and different from the standard listing.
I'm curious where all these Midianites are coming from. Weren't they taken care of with the whole Numbers 31 business? If not it makes me think that Moses' order to kill ALL the women and children (save the virgins!!!) wasn't followed through on as completely as old Mo' might have thought! At the very least some got away - which is heartening.
Gideon seems to be something of a skeptic. I like that. "You're God huh? Prove it. Prove it again .... and, oh yea, prove it a third time dude!"
Judges 6:31 is my new favorite verse!! (Uncircumcised lips and ladies lighting off their ass not withstanding). If Baal is a god - why does he need men to fight for him? Good question Gideon. Good question.
Goddamnit, I just hit backspace and lost my entire post. On my favorite chapter! Augh. So pissed off. Here is the meat of what I wrote on Judges 5: possibly 12th century; only lists 10 tribes, and no judah, simeon, or levi; exceptionally female-centric; evidence for early proto-Israelite coalition of tribes; Jael story possibly originally separate; Gideon AKA Jerubbaal has a telling name.
Now I am going to find the browser setting that goes BACK when you backspace outside of a text box and cry.
There has been a good amount of discussion about the Canaanites and God's dealings with them in the Old Testament. In this article by Clay Jones he goes through the text and explains the Biblical position.
Key graph:
The “new atheists” call God’s commands to kill the Canaanites “genocide,” but a closer look at the horror of the Canaanites’ sinfulness, exhibited in rampant idolatry, incest, adultery, child sacrifice, homosexuality, and bestiality, reveals that God’s reason for commanding their death was not genocide but capital punishment. After all, the Old Testament unequivocally commands that those who do any one of these things deserves to die.
His justification for killing Canaaninite babies is sooooooo weak. For those who don't read the article he explains that they would probably want to do what their parents did (how would the baby know if they were all wiped out though?). God knows what they would do in the future (there goes free will...). Finally, atheists like having abortions so they shouldn't judge.
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There was something on the History channel where they were talking about Deborah. The name of the show slips my mind. However what i do remember them saying, because i truly believe it is wrong, was that Deborah was a great military leader. And how she lead the people to victory over their enemies. Now why i think their conclusion is wrong is:
ReplyDeleteGod did the bulk of the warring. Barak and his crew just had to chase the enemy down. Another thing Deborah was a prophetess. And she is taking to it to speak a word from God. If this word she spoke does not come to pass, she did not speak the Word of God, and should not be suffered to live. (Deuteronomy 18:20). To me it's hard to save others from a false prophet when your dead. That is why Barak, i believe, said he would not go unless Deborah went with him. Kinda like; if this word is from God you won't mind going with us. If she said no, then it would lead him to believe that she was not speaking true words from God. This is that iron chariot army that they had feared before.
Don't know if anyone else saw that program, but since the intro for today was short i thought i would add something. :-D
Well there is also Jael who actually killed the enemy leader.
ReplyDeleteMore seriously Deborah seems to have been an established not a new prophet and leader (judge can also be translated as chieftain) so Barak doubting her words could be said to doubt God.
BTW One Midrash considers Barak to be Deborah's husband.
Also the Song of Deborah is generally considered to have the most archaic Hebrew of any part of the Bible (therefore also a bit more difficult to translate) and should be considered separately from the narrative. It should also be noted that the list of tribes is incomplete and different from the standard listing.
I'm curious where all these Midianites are coming from. Weren't they taken care of with the whole Numbers 31 business? If not it makes me think that Moses' order to kill ALL the women and children (save the virgins!!!) wasn't followed through on as completely as old Mo' might have thought! At the very least some got away - which is heartening.
ReplyDeleteGideon seems to be something of a skeptic. I like that. "You're God huh? Prove it. Prove it again .... and, oh yea, prove it a third time dude!"
Judges 6:31 is my new favorite verse!! (Uncircumcised lips and ladies lighting off their ass not withstanding). If Baal is a god - why does he need men to fight for him? Good question Gideon. Good question.
Goddamnit, I just hit backspace and lost my entire post. On my favorite chapter! Augh. So pissed off. Here is the meat of what I wrote on Judges 5: possibly 12th century; only lists 10 tribes, and no judah, simeon, or levi; exceptionally female-centric; evidence for early proto-Israelite coalition of tribes; Jael story possibly originally separate; Gideon AKA Jerubbaal has a telling name.
ReplyDeleteNow I am going to find the browser setting that goes BACK when you backspace outside of a text box and cry.
There has been a good amount of discussion about the Canaanites and God's dealings with them in the Old Testament. In this article by Clay Jones he goes through the text and explains the Biblical position.
ReplyDeleteKey graph:
The “new atheists” call God’s commands to kill the Canaanites “genocide,” but a closer look at the horror of the Canaanites’ sinfulness, exhibited in rampant idolatry, incest, adultery, child sacrifice, homosexuality, and bestiality, reveals that God’s reason for commanding their death was not genocide but capital punishment. After all, the Old Testament unequivocally commands that those who do any one of these things deserves to die.
Thanks for that link, Brian.
ReplyDeleteHis justification for killing Canaaninite babies is sooooooo weak. For those who don't read the article he explains that they would probably want to do what their parents did (how would the baby know if they were all wiped out though?). God knows what they would do in the future (there goes free will...). Finally, atheists like having abortions so they shouldn't judge.
I'm glad he cleared all that up for me.